homelabs<\/a> category and perhaps asking for tasks to be set for you - a kind of homework assignment if you will.<\/p>\nWhatever you decide, good luck, keep being involved in the community, asking questions, assisting others where you know the answer - building up your knowledge and please, get some type of lab or kit you can play with.<\/p>","upvoteCount":2,"datePublished":"2023-11-17T11:39:36.000Z","url":"https://community.spiceworks.com/t/path-to-cyber-security/962651/2","author":{"@type":"Person","name":"Rod-IT","url":"https://community.spiceworks.com/u/Rod-IT"}},{"@type":"Answer","text":"
I think it’s getting harder and harder to get you foot in the door these days, ESPECIALLY if you have no real world experience and no educational background in anything IT. For example we are now requiring a 4 year bachelors degree along with at least a year experience in some kind of IT role. I didn’t even have that when I got hired…and this is the qualifications for one of my team members…<\/p>\n
I’m not sure why it’s getting so tough…<\/p>\n
I see a LOT of applicants resumes and I see one of three things…WAY over qualified for the position, OR the applicant has experience but not the education, OR the applicant has the education but no experience. I CANNOT find anyone with the degree and with experience (unless they are WAY over qualified)…<\/p>\n
So what do you do?<\/p>\n
You probably have to get a degree and then are probably going to have to take a position “bellow you” for at least a year to get some kind of experience. Can you even do that these days (get experience when everyone requires it)? I don’t know…maybe you can get lucky and show that you have what it takes to learn the position without the background? That’s what I did, but…I don’t know if it’s possible any longer. It’s possible that even though you WANT to go into cybersecurity, you’ll be stuck in a never ending loop of support positions berceuse no one will give you a chance.<\/p>\n
Sorry if it sounds harsh, but reality is, you may not be able to do what you want with out a significant investment of time and money.<\/p>","upvoteCount":1,"datePublished":"2023-11-17T12:01:15.000Z","url":"https://community.spiceworks.com/t/path-to-cyber-security/962651/3","author":{"@type":"Person","name":"general-tsao","url":"https://community.spiceworks.com/u/general-tsao"}},{"@type":"Answer","text":"
It’s a chicken and egg situation.<\/p>\n
The certs and qualifications open the doors, but do not allow you to sit in the room with others, while experience allows you to sit in the room with others, but you can’t do this unless you’ve opened the doors.<\/p>\n
This is why it’s important you show people you are keen, prove you can do things, even if the basics and start at a level you know you can do, rather than desire starting higher up, when you might not be able to fulfil that position.<\/p>\n
Do not give up<\/strong>, that’s the one thing you cannot do, if you’re already beaten with not knowing which path or how to find it, the cybersec word is only going to make you frustrated.<\/p>\nYou’ve noted you don’t have a lot of IT experience, but what do you know, what are you comfortable with?<\/p>\n
If it helps or makes you feel any better, I have no formal IT qualifications but I put myself in positions I could show people what I was capable of, lab a lot of what goes on in work and be better than other people at it. Stand out, for the right reasons.<\/p>\n
If you don’t know something, be humble and admit it, but follow up with, “I’m more than happy to learn or be taught”.<\/p>","upvoteCount":1,"datePublished":"2023-11-17T13:07:23.000Z","url":"https://community.spiceworks.com/t/path-to-cyber-security/962651/4","author":{"@type":"Person","name":"Rod-IT","url":"https://community.spiceworks.com/u/Rod-IT"}},{"@type":"Answer","text":"
I can only speak from my experience, so I hope this helps.<\/p>\n
EDIT: This was less than 5 years ago and I’m in a similar age group.<\/p>\n
When I was looking to get into the tech field, I had an associate degree in computer information systems, a COMPTIA A+, and COMPTIA Sec+ certification. I may have had my Net+, but I don’t remember. I think I got that shortly after getting a job. Anyway, I needed a job with a good company, I couldn’t make it into tech, so I said hey… I’ll just get into the company doing whatever I can and keep applying. So, I applied for a warehouse position and let the HR rep know that I had other skills that could be useful and that was what I was trying to peruse. I worked my butt off in the warehouse, tried to network as much as possible and gain a good reputation. I still applied for other positions outside of the company in tech but never got anything. One day, the HR gentleman that hired me came looking for me and let me know that they had an intern position open on the HelpDesk. I applied immediately and got the job. I then worked my butt off learning everything I could in the intern position, and as luck would have it, a HelpDesk position opened up. I applied for it and got that job. I used my internship to network further, and instead of doing tickets by remoting into desktops I would go visit the folks that needed help and talk with them, let people get to know me and I got to know them. Networking with your peers is so important. I started to talk about upward mobility, moving to the more technical teams in the company, Server, Networking etc. I was told I would need a bachelor’s degree and some more experience. Ok, let’s do it. So I started a bachelor’s degree program, got certified in Net+, Cloud+, AWS, and Linux. The AWS and Linux certs are basic, but it helped me expand my knowledge and the certs prove that. I also started learning PowerShell and Python. I would regularly talk with the Server/Net guys and ask if I could help in any way or shadow them so I could learn more. A year or so passes and a Server Team position opens. I didn’t feel prepared, I wasn’t really, but I applied anyway to show interest. Apparently, some poor soul thought I was prepared and offered me the job with the caveat that I had to finish my bachelor’s degree. I’m still there and I’m still constantly learning.<\/p>\n
Now of course I know not everyone’s path is the same. It never is. But there are a few fundamentals.<\/p>\n
\n\nGet a few certs. Not because the certs themselves are flashy and shiny, none of the ones I have are super desired. What they show is continuous growth, the desire to learn, and it showcases some of my skills.<\/p>\n<\/li>\n
\nNetwork, network, network. Talk to people. Admittedly I am not a social butterfly, 99% of my personal life I am either by myself or with my wife. But my professional life, I push myself past my comfort zone and just talk to folks.<\/p>\n<\/li>\n
\nSometimes getting a job at a good company and working up will present opportunities. The jobs you have applied for, if you were on the inside, you may have gotten.<\/p>\n<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n
Not part of my little story but<\/p>\n
\n\nDon’t get discouraged. Keep going, 100 applications? Shoot, you are a well-oiled application machine, go for 100 more. You will get something.<\/p>\n<\/li>\n
\nIf you haven’t started a home lab, start one. You don’t have to invest a ton of money. You can use Hyper-V, Virtual Box, or something else. There is a ton of open-source tools to help you learn.<\/p>\n<\/li>\n
\nLearn a scripting / coding language. In a CySec or Infrastructure role, this will be used to automate things. You will thank yourself later. Infrastructure as Code (IaC) is really starting to become a big thing. Prep for the future.<\/p>\n<\/li>\n
\nLinux is a large part of server infrastructure. Learn how to navigate Linux. You don’t have to be a super expert, but it’ll help. I’m also talking about the command line portion of Linux here, not Ubuntu or another versions GUI.<\/p>\n<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n
As far as Cyber Security goes, it’s going to be down the road a bit, probably. Most starting points are HelpDesk. Small to medium size organizations with an In-House tech support will be the best hands on experience. Huge companies are going to have Tier 1, 2, 3 etc. mostly phone work. To make a good SySec professional you need to understand TCP/UPD/IP protocols, data flow, email, networking concepts, firewalls, and so much more. This will take time.<\/p>\n
As always, you can accept a job at one company and continue to look for other jobs. You are never stuck. This is common knowledge but it’s always a good reminder to bring it back up to the surface.<\/p>","upvoteCount":2,"datePublished":"2023-11-17T13:58:38.000Z","url":"https://community.spiceworks.com/t/path-to-cyber-security/962651/5","author":{"@type":"Person","name":"c-t","url":"https://community.spiceworks.com/u/c-t"}},{"@type":"Answer","text":"
1. What type of positions or names of positions should I look for to start applying to, or do i not bother applying yet as I won’t be hired and instead just find another job in medical for now until I learn skills?<\/strong><\/p>\nHelp Desk Technician, Help Desk Specialist, Tier 1 Support Specialist or something like this. These will get your foot in the door.<\/p>\n
2. Where do I start as far as courses/ learning to get me my first job in tech and what skills do I need to know before I will even be considered?<\/strong><\/p>\nIf you already have a bachelors degree, I wouldn’t go back to school. For example, my boss, Server Manager, has a BS in psychology. Focus on certs. Start with your A+, it will cover the fundamentals. Get your Net+ and Sec+ certs next. These are the starting “trifecta”. It’s a lot of information, but it will help. CCNA on the networking side isn’t a bad one to get either. Getting a base Linux cert will help you learn that, look at some of the easier LPI ones. This is just to dip your toes in. I would look at some certifications paths for cyber security and see which one interests you. Some certs can be very expensive, going over 1000 USD. All of the ones I have mentioned aren’t too bad on the wallet, with the exception of A+, it’s two tests last time I checked. Also, Udemy is an awesome tool for these. I wouldn’t pay for the $1000 courses, just review Udemy courses, do practice tests and study. CompTIA has some free information on their website about what the test covers.<\/p>\n
3. Any other advice for me to break in or that you may have for me once I am in the field to help me grow to become someone working in cybersecurity?<\/strong><\/p>\nFor the time being, I would put cybersecurity as a long term goal. Keep applying, if you don’t have it, add something to your resume like CompTIA A+ certification in progress or something that shows you are educating yourself, taking the initiative.<\/p>\n
As a side thought, at your current place of employment or even a previous one, see if you can get in and talk to some of the guys in the IT department. Ask them questions, see if you can shadow them maybe. See what paths they took, any advice they have or something like that. This might prove to be invaluable.<\/p>","upvoteCount":0,"datePublished":"2023-11-17T14:10:31.000Z","url":"https://community.spiceworks.com/t/path-to-cyber-security/962651/6","author":{"@type":"Person","name":"c-t","url":"https://community.spiceworks.com/u/c-t"}},{"@type":"Answer","text":"
“Getting into cybersecurity” is the phrase du jour (or perhaps phase<\/em> du jour). Everyone wants to do it because it’s the hot topic of the day. 10-15 years ago, everyone wanted to be a game designer. 5 years ago, thanks to 19-year-olds on YouTube recording themselves playing popular games and making actual money at it, everyone wanted to be a game tester. 20 years ago, it was Web design and blogging.<\/p>\nSo it certainly can be lucrative, but it’s also hyper-competitive. Consider this: what kind of person would an organization trust to protect it? That person is being handed the keys to the kingdom.<\/p>\n
That person would need credible experience in networks. One has to demonstrate that they’ve done<\/strong> it, not just read about it. Cybersecurity starts<\/strong> with successfully configuring routers and switches to protect one’s own network from outside forces, even consumer-grade ones at home.<\/p>\nThe path toward it? Be a successful network administrator and engineer first. You can’t protect something if you don’t know what you’re protecting.<\/p>\n
Next, don’t focus on your age. At 34, you’re still – to me and many others here – a very young puppy. lots<\/strong> of time to get yourself up to speed. The reason you feel lost right now is because you’re looking too far ahead. You see the peak of the mountain you’re trying to climb and focusing so strongly on all of the things you think you need to get there – ropes and all the mountaineering gear – that you’re missing the trail that’s right in front of you that’s already been blazed. Yeah, it’s not as exciting or as glamourous to walk down worn paths of gravel and dirt, but you don’t get to the mountaintop on your first day on the trail.<\/p>\nAs you climb farther up that trail, you start to understand based on environment and experience – not just read about – the gear and strategies you’ll need for the next step. Maybe you encounter a big river to cross. You need to consider how to cross that river you didn’t know was there when you were still at the base of the mountain, staring at the rocky peak.<\/p>\n
Do you look for a natural or artificial bridge? Do you swim for it? How shallow is the bed? Can you walk across it? How swift is the current? Your rock-climbing gear isn’t going to help you here.<\/p>\n
An IT career is no different. It’s good to have a goal, but don’t be so blinded by the goal that you lose sight of everything else along the way. That network administrator role I mentioned? That’s just one of the many base camps along this mountain-climbing path. You still have to climb to that<\/strong>, and that’s higher up in elevation than where you are at the entrance of the national park. The peak – cybersecurity – is still higher than that, and even then, there are so many crags and caves and valleys that it’s all still a new experience in and of itself up there.<\/p>\nAnd along this journey, you may find that forestry or mycology become more interesting than reaching the peak of the mountain. You might veer off along the path to go in a different direction. In that analogy, you might discover that A/V is much more fun. Or DBA. Or coding. All of those possibilities are still there on the mountain, just that you can’t see them right now from the park entrance.<\/p>\n
Head inside the park and take the first step on the trail to see where it leads you. Don’t concentrate solely on reaching the peak and spending all of your time and efforts on collecting mountaineering gear, at the expense of establishing your fundamentals (a good pair of hiking boots and bottles of water). We all start on help desk in one manner or another, even those of us who have greater tech experience from our personal lives.<\/p>","upvoteCount":3,"datePublished":"2023-11-17T15:37:38.000Z","url":"https://community.spiceworks.com/t/path-to-cyber-security/962651/7","author":{"@type":"Person","name":"weirdfish","url":"https://community.spiceworks.com/u/weirdfish"}},{"@type":"Answer","text":"
To add to the great advice above, I would suggest building a sandbox. You will learn about a many technologies in the process of building it and it will provide you a safe environment to try things out. Perfect for learning.<\/p>","upvoteCount":0,"datePublished":"2023-11-17T20:17:43.000Z","url":"https://community.spiceworks.com/t/path-to-cyber-security/962651/8","author":{"@type":"Person","name":"netcacique","url":"https://community.spiceworks.com/u/netcacique"}},{"@type":"Answer","text":"
First off, thank you everyone as each of you had multiple pieces of helpful advice. To start, I am not against working a helpdesk I was more so asking if any other entry jobs because I was having a hard time finding one. I think the major thing I am realizing is that unless for some reason someone took a chance on training me, I really need to learn a lot more and probably pass the A+ before really even being considered. This is good to know because I have always tinkered, built pcs and messed around troubleshooting but I am being humbled by the A+ realizing I know very very little to nothing. I have a masters degree as a therapist and have done that over the past 10 years, but want out of the medical field. I think the cold hard truth I need to swallow is learn learn learn before applying to the helpdesk positions instead of hoping/ expecting to be hired and taught the skills. Could someone in laments terms please explain what they mean by lab? Switches? Old laptops? PCs? Etc? I feel my knowledge for hardware is much higher than that as software such as troubleshooting/ bios/ networking etc. If someone could explain more in depth what they mean by that it would be appreciated. Thank you all for your posts. This free knowledge in tech is seeming to be the best advice out there!<\/p>","upvoteCount":0,"datePublished":"2023-11-17T22:45:24.000Z","url":"https://community.spiceworks.com/t/path-to-cyber-security/962651/9","author":{"@type":"Person","name":"tech-newbie603","url":"https://community.spiceworks.com/u/tech-newbie603"}},{"@type":"Answer","text":"
I faced the same problem and I am currently looking for a job for experience. However, at the same time I am taking courses that can help me achieve my goal and I am also preparing for the CCNA exam using “Jeremy’s IT Lab” video-lessons on YouTube. I advise you to do the same for now and hope you can achieve your goal.<\/p>","upvoteCount":0,"datePublished":"2023-11-19T14:50:06.000Z","url":"https://community.spiceworks.com/t/path-to-cyber-security/962651/10","author":{"@type":"Person","name":"emil1998","url":"https://community.spiceworks.com/u/emil1998"}},{"@type":"Answer","text":"
When we say you should build a lab/sandbox, we mean create a simulated environment where you can install, run, break and fix different products and technologies.<\/p>\n
I will use my sandbox as an example. I am a Network Engineer and I decided to build a sandbox because I am studying to take an advanced Cisco certification test and it includes technologies I do not work with every day. My sandbox is an environment where I can setup networks using virtual versions of Cisco routers and Switches and use these technologies just as if I was using them in the real world.<\/p>\n
My sandbox has the following components:<\/p>\n
HP server with 2 mulitcore processors, 128gb of ram and about 2 tb of disc space. It also has several network interface adapters for connecting to networks.<\/p>\n
VMWare ESXI 7.x as Hypervisor. This is software that allows you to create and run virtual machines.<\/p>\n
EVE-NG community edition. This is a multivendor network emulation software that allows you to create complex virtual environments with servers, routers, switches, firewalls, and many more devices. It runs ion ESXI as a virtual machine.<\/p>\n
Cisco Modeling Labs: Cisco network emulation software that allows you to use their device operating systems legally. It also runs as a virtual machine.<\/p>\n
You could use a powerful laptop, workstation or a server as the basis of your home lab. There are also other choices for virtualization other than ESXI. On a lab you could build an environment where you can get familiar and learn to use the technologies you decide to study.<\/p>\n
Look this subjects up on Google and youtube and you will find how to instructions.<\/p>","upvoteCount":0,"datePublished":"2023-11-20T00:04:03.000Z","url":"https://community.spiceworks.com/t/path-to-cyber-security/962651/11","author":{"@type":"Person","name":"netcacique","url":"https://community.spiceworks.com/u/netcacique"}},{"@type":"Answer","text":"
I’m a DBA, so pretty much far into left field as far as the rest of these Spiceheads are concerned
While on the job at the office as a field technician, I saw an opportunity to grab. I was bored as “just” a technician, so when that opportunity presented itself, I took it. I created that organization’s asset management system. Over the following 11 years, my role – because of that database application I built for my employer<\/strong> – gradually grew away from installing computers and replacing projector lamps and toward systems deployment and management.<\/p>\nThat led to my current job as a data analyst. A far cry from cleaning keyboards when our little darling students pop keys and rearrange them to make dirty words.<\/p>\n
Nobody has the time or capacity to take someone with zero experience to train them to get up to speed, unfortunately. One needs at least a fundamental layer they can build upon, but that fundamental layer has to be sufficient to be able to do some<\/strong> of the work independently that the job requires.<\/p>\nYou don’t necessarily need<\/strong> the A+ cert specifically, but you do have to have the foundation of knowing computers, OSes, and applications slightly better than the average user base so you can help them out of the bind. That’s the whole nature of help desk and technician work. You’re the problem solver. Maybe<\/em> you can start in a call center that has decision trees already mapped out for you so that all you’re doing is walking a client through the flowchart. I don’t know if such jobs exist anymore or if they’ve all been off-shored, but I also understand those are absolutely dismal and soul-sucking jobs.<\/p>\nBut yes, you’re right in that some level of knowledge is going to be needed. Hoping that an org will take someone with zero experience or know-how and train them is, unfortunately, a pipe dream. We didn’t even do that in the '90s or '00s.<\/p>\n
You don’t even have to go full-speed into network engineering to build a learning lab. A couple of pieces of hardware – a desktop PC, some low-grade laptops – some consumer-level network products like a switch and a wireless AP (separate piece of hardware, BTW; you want to give yourself the challenge of connecting & configuring, not having the gear do all the work for you), and build that network inside your home to practice on. Set up a file share on the PC. See if you can get to it with the laptops.<\/p>\n
Wipe the laptops and set them up again. Then when you realize how absolutely tedious that is, ask yourself, “is there a better way to do this?” Then go researching that better way. Try it again. Repeat.<\/p>\n
Everything we do is centered around “is there a better way to do this?”<\/p>\n
A couple of years down the line doing this and that question might start to look at that consumer-grade network hardware you started with. You ask if it can be better, and the answer will be “yes.” But how? At that point, if you’re asking the question, you know what terms to use to find the answer.<\/p>","upvoteCount":0,"datePublished":"2023-11-20T18:57:36.000Z","url":"https://community.spiceworks.com/t/path-to-cyber-security/962651/12","author":{"@type":"Person","name":"weirdfish","url":"https://community.spiceworks.com/u/weirdfish"}},{"@type":"Answer","text":"\n\n
<\/div>\n
tech-newbie603:<\/div>\n
\nCould someone in laments terms please explain what they mean by lab? Switches? Old laptops? PCs? Etc? I feel my knowledge for hardware is much higher than that as software such as troubleshooting/ bios/ networking etc. If someone could explain more in depth what they mean by that it would be appreciated. Thank you all for your posts. This free knowledge in tech is seeming to be the best advice out there!<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n<\/aside>\n
A Lab in IT terms means to build your own network, your own test environment - as if you was a scientist in a lab, mess, play, learn. Break, fix, document - it’s your ‘lab’ so break and fix it as much as you can, learning as you go.<\/p>\n
Switches are network devices that allow multiple systems to talk to each other - they come in varying flavours - again, get some old ones and learn them.<\/p>\n
If you’re not sure what PCs or laptops are, you’ve a long way to go - I jest but you should know what each of the components are though - what is the ram module, what does a hard drive/SSD look like, what does the CPU do and where is it in the system - what is a GPU and what is it’s function.<\/p>\n
Basically, buy or be given old hardware and a screwdriver and open things up, note the parts, remove them, leave them out for a few days, then go back and put it all back together.<\/p>\n
Learn terminology, what does RAM stand for, what is HDD short for, what is a GB or TB and which is bigger?<\/p>\n
A tip for you - when you take something apart, document or photo where things come from, then reverse it all a few days later until it becomes commonplace, where I could take one apart and you could rebuild it for me.<\/p>\n
We are a good community and always try to help those who want to better themselves - start where you are comfortable and don’t be afraid to ask for help - details matter.<\/p>","upvoteCount":0,"datePublished":"2023-11-20T19:46:58.000Z","url":"https://community.spiceworks.com/t/path-to-cyber-security/962651/13","author":{"@type":"Person","name":"Rod-IT","url":"https://community.spiceworks.com/u/Rod-IT"}},{"@type":"Answer","text":"
That was very helpful information. Everyone in this thread has been very kind & gave out a lot of great advice. An article directed me to this website this morning. I’m so thankful it did.<\/p>","upvoteCount":0,"datePublished":"2024-01-23T12:01:27.000Z","url":"https://community.spiceworks.com/t/path-to-cyber-security/962651/14","author":{"@type":"Person","name":"spiceuser-xena909","url":"https://community.spiceworks.com/u/spiceuser-xena909"}}]}}
Rod-IT
November 17, 2023, 11:39am
2
For those reading, here is the initial topic
You definitely need hands-on experience, regardless of job title. Is there a reason helpdesk is something you’re not keen on - it’s the best place to get a feel for all sorts of issues - you can also oversee 90% of the business this way.
It’s a stepping stone and doesn’t have to be permanent - from here you could move to a tech or engineer - you might also be lucky and fall in to this directly, but you need to be prepared to start somewhere, especially if you have nothing technical to aid you in getting in deeper at the start.
You should be setting up a lab, old kit or VMs and learning your way around a system, Windows 10/11 as a minimum, but server knowledge is also useful in a cybersec job.
Me personally, if I didn’t need paying and wanted in this field, would be speaking to local colleges/universities and offering my services for free or at a minimum food/drink in exchange for being taught for a period of time, with the hope they could find me something while I was there. This may or may not work/be suitable for you.
Note that colleges and universities can often find people placements on-site at real companies as part of their tuitions - don’t be afraid to go and have a chat, seek their advice without joining a class. (Like you did here)
This is key, being involved and active will help you no end - participating in topics as you learn, joining the homelabs category and perhaps asking for tasks to be set for you - a kind of homework assignment if you will.
Whatever you decide, good luck, keep being involved in the community, asking questions, assisting others where you know the answer - building up your knowledge and please, get some type of lab or kit you can play with.
2 Spice ups
