The Wayback Machine - https://web.archive.org/web/20120331182228/http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.os.apple.fink.core/2351
Daniel Macks | 20 Jun 18:24

Plans for Lion

Sticking with already-public info...there are some design decisions and migration issues we need ASAP to
enable further testing and preparations for 10.7. Here are my notes:

1. Architecture. Fink on 10.7 will be x86_64 only (not supporting i386). That will solve a ton of
perl-module (and other) packaging issues involving forcing use of the "non-default" arch
consistently. 

2. "Upgrading" from 10.6 will not work cleanly because apple apparently does not have
/usr/bin/perl5.10.0 at all (hardcoded #! interp in fink core). Therefore users need to reinstall from
scratch (and can use 'dpkg' but not 'fink' to dump a list of installed packages before doing so). Users with
arch=i386 would not be able to upgrade anyway even with altering #! since we don't support that arch on
10.7. 

3. The system-perl interp may not even have a fully versioned name. That makes it unusable (and potentially
not even unchanging!) for perlX.X.X varianting. 

4. Given #2 and #3, I think we should have our own perl interp for fink core instead of using system-perl. We
did this on a previous distro. It gives fuel to "fink is duplicating so much stuff I already have!" critics,
but it also solves arch-consistency and pathname sanity (the "yes, but it's the solution that works"
response). 

5. Problem: We have tons of legacy support for older OS X in packages (variants that don't exist on newer
distros, hacks for distro-specific bugs). We also have some packages blocked from upgrading because
they cannot be used on older distro and it's painful to fork a low-level library among distros (means the
whole dep tree from that point has to fork in order to allow versioned dependencies). 

6. We have to decide which perl- and python- variants we want to bring forward. Historically we've kept >=
"whatever came with previous OS X system". That was especially important for perl, so that things that
used system-perl could continue to work seemlessly. 

(Continue reading)

Daniel Johnson | 21 Jun 00:37
Picon

Re: Plans for Lion


On Jun 20, 2011, at 12:24 PM, Daniel Macks wrote:

> Sticking with already-public info...there are some design decisions and migration issues we need ASAP
to enable further testing and preparations for 10.7. Here are my notes:
> 
> 1. Architecture. Fink on 10.7 will be x86_64 only (not supporting i386). That will solve a ton of
perl-module (and other) packaging issues involving forcing use of the "non-default" arch
consistently. 
> 
> 2. "Upgrading" from 10.6 will not work cleanly because apple apparently does not have
/usr/bin/perl5.10.0 at all (hardcoded #! interp in fink core). Therefore users need to reinstall from
scratch (and can use 'dpkg' but not 'fink' to dump a list of installed packages before doing so). Users with
arch=i386 would not be able to upgrade anyway even with altering #! since we don't support that arch on
10.7. 
> 
> 3. The system-perl interp may not even have a fully versioned name. That makes it unusable (and
potentially not even unchanging!) for perlX.X.X varianting. 
> 
> 4. Given #2 and #3, I think we should have our own perl interp for fink core instead of using system-perl. We
did this on a previous distro. It gives fuel to "fink is duplicating so much stuff I already have!" critics,
but it also solves arch-consistency and pathname sanity (the "yes, but it's the solution that works"
response). 
> 

Yes, please! Building perl shouldn't take that long on any machine capable of running 10.7 and hard drives
are huge and cheap. Also, being able to precisely control the build environment of perl will make
packaging perlmods a lot easier. Getting rid of /usr/local from the build flags would be REALLY nice.

> 5. Problem: We have tons of legacy support for older OS X in packages (variants that don't exist on newer
(Continue reading)

Re: Plans for Lion

If it's possible to say, what version of X11 comes with Lion?  There was 
the recent thread on one of the other lists that mentioned the latest 
wine needing xquartz, and firefox4 also needs an X11 newer than what 
even 10.6 ships with.  Presumably, other packages will start needing 
newer X features over the life of Lion, and switching X11 providers in 
the middle doesn't work seamlessly (might be as fun as the pangocairo 
transition).

Hanspeter

--

-- 
Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Simplify data backup and recovery for your virtual environment with vRanger.
Installation's a snap, and flexible recovery options mean your data is safe,
secure and there when you need it. Data protection magic?
Nope - It's vRanger. Get your free trial download today.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/quest-sfdev2dev
_______________________________________________
fink-core mailing list
fink-core <at> lists.sourceforge.net
List archive:
http://news.gmane.org/gmane.os.apple.fink.core
Subscription management:
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-core

Martin Costabel | 22 Jun 08:12
Picon

Re: Plans for Lion

On 22/06/11 04:21, Hanspeter Niederstrasser wrote:
> If it's possible to say, what version of X11 comes with Lion?  There was
> the recent thread on one of the other lists that mentioned the latest
> wine needing xquartz, and firefox4 also needs an X11 newer than what
> even 10.6 ships with.  Presumably, other packages will start needing
> newer X features over the life of Lion, and switching X11 providers in
> the middle doesn't work seamlessly (might be as fun as the pangocairo
> transition).

Snow Leopard came with an X11 that was basically the latest xquartz 
release that was available when it came out, xquartz-2.3.4. Afterwards 
it didn't follow the xquartz 2.4 and 2.5 releases, it stayed with the 
2.3 series and went up to 2.3.6. With Lion it will probably be the same. 
Its initial version of X11 will correspond more or less to 
xquartz-2.6.2, and then I guess it will be frozen with occasional fixes. 
 From the x11-users list, Re: Plans for Lion:

>  On Jun 21, 2011, at 12:44, Joachim Beckers wrote:
>>
>>  Jeremy,
>>
>>  What's your advice for those of us trying out Lion?
>>
>>  DP4 ships with a recent X11.app. Better to just stick with that?
>>

On 21/06/11 22:59, Jeremy Huddleston wrote:
> XQuartz-2.6.3_rc2 is designed for Snow Leopard.
>
> I would advise you to use the X11.app that is present in Lion and to
(Continue reading)

Martin Costabel | 20 Jul 17:25
Picon

Re: Plans for Lion

On 22/06/11 08:12, Martin Costabel wrote:
> On 22/06/11 04:21, Hanspeter Niederstrasser wrote:

>> If it's possible to say, what version of X11 comes with Lion?
[]
>
> Snow Leopard came with an X11 that was basically the latest xquartz
> release that was available when it came out, xquartz-2.3.4. Afterwards
> it didn't follow the xquartz 2.4 and 2.5 releases, it stayed with the
> 2.3 series and went up to 2.3.6. With Lion it will probably be the same.
> Its initial version of X11 will correspond more or less to
> xquartz-2.6.2, and then I guess it will be frozen with occasional fixes.

For the record: Lion comes with XQuartz 2.6.3 (xorg-server 1.10.2).

--

-- 
Martin

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
10 Tips for Better Web Security
Learn 10 ways to better secure your business today. Topics covered include:
Web security, SSL, hacker attacks & Denial of Service (DoS), private keys,
security Microsoft Exchange, secure Instant Messaging, and much more.
http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51426210/
_______________________________________________
fink-core mailing list
fink-core <at> lists.sourceforge.net
List archive:
http://news.gmane.org/gmane.os.apple.fink.core
Subscription management:
(Continue reading)

David R. Morrison | 10 Jul 23:51
Favicon

More Plans for Lion

I understand from a conversation on #irc that there is considerable sentiment in favor of creating a new
10.7 directory.

The choice is between a fink release with thousands of packages but many broken ones, and a fink release with
a small handful of packages which may only grow slowly.

Either option is bad news for upgraders, since they may not be able to replicate their 10.6 fink
environments in 10.7.  My own opinion is that people might be better off with a large collection of
somewhat-broken packages, but I'm willing to go along with the majority view.

If we *do* decide to create a new 10.7 directory, let me suggest that we create it stable-only, and dispense
with the fiction that we are able to maintain different testing levels for different subtrees.

  -- Dave

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All of the data generated in your IT infrastructure is seriously valuable.
Why? It contains a definitive record of application performance, security 
threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes 
sense of it. IT sense. And common sense.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-d2d-c2
_______________________________________________
fink-core mailing list
fink-core <at> lists.sourceforge.net
List archive:
http://news.gmane.org/gmane.os.apple.fink.core
Subscription management:
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fink-core

(Continue reading)

Alexander Hansen | 11 Jul 00:16
Picon
Gravatar

Re: More Plans for Lion


On 7/10/11 5:51 PM, David R. Morrison wrote:
> I understand from a conversation on #irc that there is considerable
> sentiment in favor of creating a new 10.7 directory.
> 
> The choice is between a fink release with thousands of packages but
> many broken ones, and a fink release with a small handful of packages
> which may only grow slowly.
> 
> Either option is bad news for upgraders, since they may not be able
> to replicate their 10.6 fink environments in 10.7.  My own opinion is
> that people might be better off with a large collection of
> somewhat-broken packages, but I'm willing to go along with the
> majority view.
> 
> If we *do* decide to create a new 10.7 directory, let me suggest that
> we create it stable-only, and dispense with the fiction that we are
> able to maintain different testing levels for different subtrees.
> 
> -- Dave
> 
> 

We might want to put an unstable (or contrib) tree in play when (if?) we
switch over to git, to allow maintainers to update their own packages
for later testing and merging into the "stable" distro.
--

-- 
Alexander Hansen, Ph.D.
Fink User Liaison
http://finkakh.wordpress.com/
(Continue reading)


Gmane