Hello all. So, basically all of my work background has been Computer/Tech Support related. Helpdesk stuff, nothing too fancy. I also have recently finished my Computer Science degree. Went that route because it seemed like the best pay.

I really do like Sysadmin work though. I also like Programming. Everyone I ask seems to have a different definition of what DevOps is, but from what I have been able to tell, it seems to be the closest thing to being a combination of both Sysadmin and Software Developer style work. Is this correct? Since I really enjoy both, it seems like it would be a good career for me. I also do better in jobs with variety. Blame it on the ADHD or something equally cliche, but I get bored easily if I am doing the same thing every day. My favorite job I have ever had was one where I was a contractor for a local ISP. Being a contractor I wasn’t assigned to any one department. One day I could be in the office helping with their helpdesk. The next I could be onsite somewhere running Cat5 cable through a ceiling. Kept things interesting, I liked that.

Is DevOps a good career for someone like me? How does the salary compare to traditional software development. I may have a lead on an Atlassian Support Engineer job, basically working for a company that installs and manages Jira and things for other companies. Not sure if that’s the kind of position that might qualify as DevOps, or at least get me started down that path. The position will be in either Portland or Seattle, both of which I vastly prefer over Phoenix, where I am now, and should be around the high $60k mark. Since I am currently unemployed, it’s sounding quite tempting. How would that affect my career in the long run, since it isn’t really a ‘developer’ position?

29 Spice ups

Yeah, though it’s definitely more on the developer side.

Sounds like working for an MSP would be a good fit for you, focusing on projects and ‘DevOps-y’ stuff.

I moved from Germany to Seattle, and my SO and her family are from Seattle. (Lynnwood)
With 60k you’ll either have to have a pretty long commute, or live of ramen noodles…
(saying the cost of living is super high in Seattle, Phoenix is super cheap compared to Seattle…)
I would not be comfortable living in Seattle area with 60k.
IDK about Portland though, a lot of people I know are moving there and love it, but never been there so no idea.

60k seems also a little low for Sys Ops, but then again, do you have any experience Programming / Developing other than the degree? As in you programmed and developed for a living? Do you have like a portfolio of things you worked on ? (I have a Bachelors in Computer Science as well… I can’t program for sh@$…) Programming classes were my nightmare haha.

Also, we have a SpiceCorps tonight, join us?

@taylorhuston9533

3 Spice ups

Quite a good question. But first, what exactly is DevOps? I haven’t found a good definition myself yet. Ask four dozen people, and you will get two dozen different answers (50% will just be “Uhm… what?”).

For me, it seems a DevOps position could be filled by someone how has coding knowledge, but also at least some knowledge of operations and networking. They seem to specialize in deployment using containers, lifecycle management and similar things.

Now there are other people like me. I’m way more a developer then a sysop (see my profile if you like, there’s a little “about”), but I’m also managing every single aspect of our whole infrastructure. We are a small organization with just two small sites, but I’m running 2 Hyper-V clusters, SharePoint farm, Exchange, MS System Center, Storage, Databases, Backups, Monitoring, Site-to-Site-VPN and what not. My position is titled “IT system engineer”.

I had a hard time figuring out whether I am a DevOps or not - because I’m deep into development and do quite some administration. But I am not. I would say I’m a “Generalist”, knowing a lot of things. But I can’t know as much as someone who specialized into something. On the other hand, I’ve got a very broad view on things, which can be a big plus in certain situations.

So before you ask whether DevOps is a good career path, you should figure out what DevOps actually is :slight_smile:

3 Spice ups

$60-$70k seems to be roughly the going rate for Junior developers in the Seattle area. Also I am single and (relatively) young, so I have no problem living with roommates or in a tiny studio for the first year while I break into the industry. This would be my first real job post graduation. My last job was basically just a glorified Web Designer. Technically I was writing code all day, but it was just basic HTML, CSS and the occasional light JavaScript to add some responsiveness or something to a site. Nothing fancy. But from self studying I am actually a pretty solid Java developer, and I’ve dabbled in most web based frameworks and technologies.

The Phoenix Project

Good read if you are looking to get into DevOps. I don’t have any first hand experience, just a few friends that are either completely immersed in DevOps or quasi involved. Two of them are doing very well salary wise, the 3rd we have never discussed it, but I know he travels quite a bit for pleasure so I would assume he has at least a little discretionary income.

Seems to me that DevOps is more a managerial system and less hands on IT work. Nothing wrong with that, but you have to be certain you’d rather manage than develop/code or administrate.

2 Spice ups

Here if you’re good with scripting and have the ability to automate you’re in dev ops. Scripting and automation to streamline business process is my definition of dev ops.

I don’t know much about you… When someone asks “would I be a good programmer?” it really comes down to their personality in my opinion. Without going into too much of personalities, I’ll simply say I’ve found programmers to be the opposite of sysadmins. Sysadmins seem (to me) to simply want things setup fairly easily and quickly, then automate that system so it doesn’t have to be touched again. Programmers on the other hand, like the intricacy of what they are coding, all the way down to compiling and why something works down to the very core.

I’m not saying sysadmins are lazy and don’t like knowing how something works down to the core, because I’m a sysadmin and I like knowing everything about everything. I’m just using it as an example for a broad stroke.

I don’t want to make this reply super long with personality types (in general) so I’ll just leave that there.

If you like coding, check out DevOps, but based on your OC, you don’t seem like you’d want to be a programmer. The only reason I say that is because usually when you start working on a new program/etc, you’re married to that and you’re working on the same thing for the most part. You said you like diversity and jumping around. You’ll do that somewhat with DevOps, moving to different projects, but chances are you’ll be dedicated to projects for longer periods of time.

I would start slow and do DevOps on the side, doing training courses on the side of sysadmin/netadmin work (maybe for an MSP where you have LOTS of diverse networks to support) while you find out if it’s going to be an area you’re interested in.

Having said all that, DevOps is a hot topic in the last year or so, and DevOps engineers are becoming more in demand. I simply chose not to go down that road even with great pay and high demand because, as I’ve said, I simply don’t have the mindset of a programmer vs. a sysadmin.

A completely different, and totally unrelated way I can describe the differences between the two with other fields… Some people are artists, and others are great at math. Two different sides of the brains, I am horrible at anything creative. Absolutely terrible. But I have always been good at math and science. I can’t paint you a picture, or create a beautiful web site, but I can talk to you for hours about quantum computing. Some people just don’t have the mindset and skills for certain things. I would never be good at anything in development or creation because I’m no artist. I’ve tried in many areas and I’m just bad.

TL;DR= Diversify. Learn stuff on the side so you can see if you want to make a career out of it. Don’t just invest all your time into one thing because you might be surprised with your results, good or bad.

2 Spice ups

I think the above puppet.com definition is very close to what i have in my head.

had a good session by Greg from Spiceworks… had NO idea what it was before… but now believe it’s really an undefined grey area where you either have developers who appreciate infrastructure, or infrastructure who appreciate development…adn then somewhat bringing the two together…

I am an infrastructure guy… essentially when i wrote a script to easily and quicky transfer data from a live system to a test system, vs the original manual process, then i started to dabble in devops…

granted this is in no way a high ranking version of the field, but might give people a general idea that the term can roll both ways…

1 Spice up

These 7 comments have more substance than the general topic of “devops”. Thank you gentlemen! Is ether testable as a solid foundation to build upon? Maybe in a very limited way somewhere. One measures something by what it is not by what it is stated to be in the future (ie evolution). Thank you men for this great advice for Taylor.

1 Spice up

The Phoenix Project is an amazing book even if you are not looking to get into DevOps. It has an IT point of view, but really can be applied to anything that involves people and projects.

1 Spice up

Devops is often misconstrued as just ‘IT guys writing scripts’ when actually that’s only a small part of it. I was struggling to come up with a good way of defining this, so I turned to my old friend Google. This paragraph sums it up pretty well.

“DevOps (development and operations) is an enterprise software development phrase used to mean a type of agile relationship between Development and IT Operations. The goal of DevOps is to change and improve the relationship by advocating better communication and collaboration between the two business units.”

In my current role I test and develop installation packages for software and assist with testing of in-house applications.

I also automate the deployment of the applications across the environment, track and monitor all assets, and do desktop support.

Am I DevOps?

DevOps means you make a job for yourself as the go-between for IT and developers, and you are constantly selling yourself and putting a lot of effort into developing relationships and fighting (and winning) political battles so that you remain indispensable. Then one day the company has a bad quarter, and management starts looking into exactly what you do (which to them is talking to two groups, i.e. nothing), so you’re the first to be down-sized. That’s DevOps.

DevOps is more of a culture, movement, and practice than it is a role. It’s a manifestation of Agile/Scrum as opposed to the waterfall SDLC.

You don’t see titles like “DevOps Engineer”. The titles are similar to what we’ve had in the past, but the roles are broader.

For example, I’m a Cloud/Systems Engineer working in a DevOps office. I develop infrastructure as code and help app teams onboard their software into data centers.

We use the agile framework to handle projects, tasks, etc. and use certain software tailored for DevOps (Chef & Atlassian’s stack). DevOps is a mindset.

2 Spice ups

Hello, Im Yommy , Im Linux sys admin and junior Dev Ops. I joined this forum so as to learn more about DevOps tools like Puppet, Jenkins and other agile environment technologires like the Atlassian products. Im looking for someone i can be following his post to help me become a better admin writing puppet module. if there anyone here that is willing to help , pls contact me and i can be following your posts with my questions. yomesky2000@yahoo.com Thanks.

Having spent a few months working as in a DevOps style role, I’d recommend learning about Docker, Puppet, Chef, AWS, Jenkins and whetever else takes your fancy. It’s really easy to get into Docker and start learning about how all of these fit together to allow developers to what they need, when they need it, with minimal hassle to both you and them. One of the best reactions I’ve had from a developer was when I used Jenkins within a container to build a container running the guy’s application and automatically deploy it on Amazon ECR within minutes.

You don’t have to worry too much about knowing how to code, although it does help, but having the right mindset is key. You have to be more willing to experiment, work with developers to get when they need (in a similar way to getting the answers out of users in a more traditional operations role) and be ready to be the guy in the middle of both dev and ops with all the fun that comes with that.

DevOps if fun though and, if you get the right tools in place, you can have both sides looking at you like aliens from Toy Story and you’re the claw.