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One of the things that has come up repeatedly is a disconnect between the users of this community and the developers who do all the heavy lifting. It seems to me that if Spiceworks, on an organizational level, is serious about maintaining the community and keeping it growing as something that is useable for all involved, that getting devs and users into the same place and time would be required (not just good).

What I propose is that Spiceworks fly in some Spiceheads, and gather as many as are willing locally (yes I want to be one of the ones flown in) to spend a day or two working with the devs on how the Spiceheads use the community and putting together a road map/wish list for the future. Perhaps get some GGs there too if there are any willing and able.

What say you?

@francis-spiceworks @tabrezsyed @sean-spiceworks

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I could see that working well, but running sessions at spiceworlds where devs sit down with us for an hour or two, rather than flying us out, may be more viable.

Still, if they wanted to fly some of us out, I don’t think we’d say no.

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This is why I’m suggesting that them taking this action is a measure of the seriousness with which they view the community. Waiting until May or September would be cheaper, you’re right. And it would be pushing out the wait time before there is feedback with however many attendant features released in the meantime. I’m also proposing more than an hour or two, and finding time at SW is hard, as is finding a place quiet enough to sit down and talk. I think it would be great if they did that too, but as an initial start up I think the above is appropriate :slight_smile:

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Ah, I’m on the same page as you now.

Yes, it would be great if they did both but as a way of kicking things off, flying us to them would show that they’re 100% serious about this.

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I was actually just out there for a C+A+T about a month ago, and would have been ecstatic to have been offered the opportunity to stay an extra day and talk to people. You’re already flying people out for various webcasts, you can easily leverage some of that and take the time to get honest, face-to-face feedback.

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I think you tagged the wrong Tabrez :slight_smile: though they look to be the same person.

@tabrez

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This is a great idea. They could hear from someone outside of their own head on how the site is used. It be easier from that point to create features that cater not only to what their statistics show, but also to what power users use.

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Thanks @bernardw

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I think you make some good points, and I am curious as to what the official response will be.

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There is a SpiceCorps at HQ next month, but I feel maybe other departments will eat up the time presenting stuff more app-related.

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Maybe some could volunteer to do some testing in lieu of app stuff?

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I am unsure how likely we are to fly a bunch of people down solely for testing (as in seriously, I am not sure). I’ll bring it up with others but, as you might understand, that can be costly.

That said, we do have SpiceHead testing and giving feedback on various items when they are in the HQ. I know @doughnutdestroyer and @brendan-kelley did some stuff on recent visits. I wish we had more time with @gabrielle and @katiemattison when they were here a few weeks ago but I know they’ve gotten to test other things in the past when on site… or it might have been via desktop sharing. I do remember it was with (at the time called) Tracker. Some other SpiceHeads who’ve been here are @dmiller2 , @cweb , @rojoloco , @rickpilon , @jeffleblanc , and more.

Generally if someone is here on site, we try to grab some time with them. It also works out well when we’re at events (like Liz mentions above).

While I agree it would be great to fly people out; if we don’t, I do not believe that really means we’re not serious about improving things. There is still a lot that we can do without that, such as posting updates in here (almost finished with the first one which will be about the digest and testing and the new SpiceHead tour), doing some livestreams and conference calls, etc.

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Oh I agree that it would be costly. But that is why I’m putting my statement in those terms. In my mind (and you are free to disagree with me) Spiceworks has breached trust with the users of this community as highlighted by the recent groups update debacle. It isn’t the groups update that was the issue, but the lack of listening to the user base and including us in the building and vision of this community. To repair that trust will require time and effort. Doing what has been done seems to be just a placative action rather than a restorative one. Catching people as they come in and showing them a few things, having some conference calls and livestreams are improvements, but they’re missing a huge piece of the puzzle. Users using.

For quite some time the way it has been is Spiceworks developing an improvement either off someone’s idea, or based on a perceived need. That improvement is demoed or shown at some point. Then feedback is given and sometimes changes are made. The problem in this scenario is two fold in my mind. First, for many of these things input is not sought on priorities (as far as I know). Second, very rarely are the users able to use the improvement. It is demoed, shown off, displayed. Recent events have shown that no matter how good they are at their jobs as developers, the majority of the SW devs do not use the community as the community uses it.

To me, and I may be in a minority of one, for this group to have meaning it must be more than just a neat idea, more than just business as usual. The rebuilding of forfeited trust requires extraordinary measures at times, and my suggestion is just that. If there is not at least a willingness to evaluate the worthiness of this idea in a serious way, given the lack of vision level response to my concerns and others, I will be forced to conclude that this group is just pablum to placate the proles, plebes, and peasants.

If you want to talk this over via phone, you have my number. Feel free to pass it on to anyone else that might care as well. I’m here. My purpose, the betterment of the IT Pro community, is unchanged.

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I’m only chiming in on this because Sean tagged me but here is my two cents;

As much as I’de love (another) all expense paid trip to Austin I believe it would be cost inefficient for Spiceworks to fly people to HQ for these type of meetings. Yes they would garner good feedback, but at a relatively high cost. Also, I think its a bit unfair if not dramatic to say Spiceworks isn’t serious about community feedback because they won’t fly you to Austin.

Just last week Spiceworks send a couple of the Help Desk Developers up to Boston to visit user’s offices and talk about their use of the system and then attend a Spicecorps meetup. Frankly I think this is a much better way to go, because developers can see customer environments in action with a low signal to noise ratio and then solicit somewhat noisy feedback from the general audience at a Spicecorps meetup. I could see how this approach could work as well with soliciting input from the community.

Also, we are all IT Pros living in a first world country in the year 2015, we don’t need to all be in the same room to share ideas. Set up a Google hangout or some other sort of video meetup with select members and you can get just as much done, just bring your own beer and BBQ.

@sean-spiceworks

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We can agree there.

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You’re probably right. This isn’t about me, I would just like to be part of it. If they gathered local people who were able to travel on their own dime (since they can drive) and were passionate about the community I would be satisfied.

The problem I have with Google Hangouts, Join.Me, GoToMeeting, etc. in this context is that they are about showing mostly. Yes, you can transfer control with most of them, but it is much harder to ask someone why they clicked A then B to reach C. There is a significant difference in the feedback loop when you’re in the same room vs being on a conference call with 10 people.

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I will say I agree with this :slight_smile:

now for a response to this

<Devil’s Advocate>

The developers that come out to SpiceCorps meetings are App Developers not community developers. Therefore the point of sending developers to SpiceCorps meetings is not valid in the discussion that this thread focuses on

</Devil’s Advocate>

While flying SpiceHeads or Dev’s does not really mean much in and of it’s self I would say this thread is more about trust and communication between people. Also it is trying to figure out ways for the trust/communication to be restored.

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Sosip. Try to talk with the community managers about going to a CTRL ALT TECH or another one of the web shows. You will end up at Spice HQ. When I was there I met with some of the community dev’s (ircc) who were working on some pretty awesome new features. They wanted to talk to me about how I use the community, what I like/didn’t like etc.

From what I have seen around Spice HQ what you are proposing does happen, usually in tandem with other projects/reasons to have you down.

Then again if you are ever in Austin for the amazing BBQ, South by southwest or just any reason to visit the awesome place (maybe you can get dell to fly you in and then you sneak off to SW HQ).Head on over to the HQ and see what they can do. **If you know a head of time you will be there I HIGHLY recommend talking with a community manager and saying something along the lines of “HEY ______ Awesome community manager, I am going to be in Austin ____ to ___ I wanted to swing by the Spice HQ and talk with devs/community/get a tour/swag shop/ photo with spicerex, can we make this happen?”

@kelly

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@cweb I have been there for a few broadcasts. Again, my proposal is not about “fitting something in” or “making it work in the flow of things”. This about being disruptive, and changing a culture that, from the outside, appears to at least disparage the input of the users of this community.

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Sosip, I guess I will have to disagree with you. From my time at the HQ, I think the entire company is VERY focused on the community. Trying to grow the community, promote activity in the community, getting those who have been on SW for 5+yrs who are still pinto level to engage

We all do something similar on a daily basis. Do we cater to the most vocal/loud ticket submitters first because we don’t want them making a scene or do we follow a determined work flow/que. (Maybe even pushing 1-2 of our “good” submitters above that loud mouth).

Some will see any changes good or bad. You have been around the community for a while, maybe you are seeing more than I am. Right now this about perception and feelings, rather than actual data. What would the reaction be if the community managers/devs came back and said because of ______ change, community engagement has increased by ______, or we have added _______ more IT pro’s because _______.

Navigating the community is still a daunting task for a new member, so much information, I want to learn about Powershell so I posted in the programming, or wait is that windows server or groups what are groups??

People do not like change. Human’s have develops a certain level of comfort,change something new to fast destroys the homeostasis and the system (be it an individual or community) will fight against the change. That is the beauty of google’s perpetual beta model. People are more forgiving when you “try something new” and they don’t like it because they know hey this is a beta, if it doesn’t work they will just try something different that I amy love.

In the IT world we are taught to be cynical and not trust anyone. That leads to a real crappy perspective. I am willing to trust the devs/SW with their business that they know if they drive me away that is a loss of a customer. Lose to many and the vendors leave, ad revenue dries up and they foreclose on the new SW HQ. If they do something I do not like I will tell them and move on. If they continue to do it then they will lose me. You can not keep everyone happy. No matter how we try to cut it this is a business. They have to pay their bills, and while I know the people love working at SW HQ, I doubt they would do it pro bono. It goes back to the data, if a change loses 5,000 people but brings in 15,000, will they revert back to the old way to try to get the 5,000 back and risk losing the 15,000? Spiceworks is a company at the end of the day, we are their product (anything free you are not the customer you are the product).

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