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Hello Everyone,

So I have a long awaited question that I hope some other people better than myself can answer. A very long condensed story short. I was placed with a company through a recruiting firm that I told repeatedly I wanted out of the position. They kept pressuring me to fulfil the contract role, I called about another job they had open in the same recruiting office. They refused to even tell me about the job. I grew frustrated with it, and I finally found a different job on my own. I was not going to take it the additional job until the one i was contracted through became too much for me to bear. I caved to the pressure and walked out the door after one last final call to my head recruiter to ask him to please get me out of the position.

Fast forward about 6 months. I ended up back in the same area due to family health reasons which prevents me from moving out of this area. I contracted the firm while I was in another part of the state. They told me while I wasn’t completely blacklisted, I was at least not eligible for any type of system admin role again till some trust was rebuilt. I decided I wanted to bury the hatchet and at least try to see if that would be on speaking terms. I was met with a very nasty email back and you will never have a job in this town again type of email.

Has anyone else had this type of experience in recruiting?

7 Spice ups
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No, but it sounds reasonable. You took a contract and then refused to fulfill it. Now you’re not eligible, in the recruiter’s eyes, for future work.

Are you disputing the recruiter’s position or are you just pointing out the level of non-professionalism in the “never work in this town” email?

7 Spice ups
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You walked off a job that this recruiter found for you. Damaging their reputation with their client(s). Youre lucky to have gotten a response at all, much less one where they are willing to even talk to you about giving you another chance. Toxic customers exist.

4 Spice ups
(Timb0slice) 4

Most companies have a check box in their system for employees that left (voluntarily or not) that says something like “eligible for rehire”. I imagine your record says no. I don’t think that is unreasonable given the description you provided. As for working with other staffing firms I’m not aware of any shared “blacklist” but you don’t know who talks to whom. People are friends and people move through companies. Around here word gets around fast between people in the IT industry.

2 Spice ups
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Not precisely in those terms but I was quietly “disappeared” from the roster of a staffing firm. I worked on contract with a major automotive company and about halfway through, I begged my rep to get me out of there. The boss of the department was, to put it mildly, a representation of the very toxic corporate culture that led to that company’s very well-publicized bankruptcy and “bail-out.”

My rep remarked about a help desk position nearby, but I balked at it because it was much lower in pay and frankly beneath my career goals (which was part of the whole recruiting and intake process in the first place). Eventually, my contract was terminated, and my rep offered me that same help desk job again, which I again declined.

I got a call about a month or so later from the staffing company, offering me a similar position as the one I turned down but with a 1½ - 2 hour one-way commute. Even the gal on the phone sounded unconvinced that it was a good fit for me, so she already knew I’d be turning it down. After I declined both of those, I never got a call again though. Naturally, I was not what they would consider a marketable asset at that point, so they cut me loose.

In your case, your bridge with the staffing company is completely on fire. Forget them. That relationship is long past reparable. Whether your fault or not is no longer relevant. They don’t want you back. Now, whether they have the ability to completely blacklist you in the town with other companies, I don’t think anyone can answer that. But if you’re stuck where you are, then your choice is either direct-apply or try your luck with another staffing company in the area and take what you can get.

Remember also that you’re the product, not the client. But I would cut your losses and not deal with your original company anymore, as clearly, they’d prefer not to deal with you either.

3 Spice ups
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@rhummel ​ - Honestly, the last line does get me the most. I find the entire thing a frustrating waste of time given I told them straight out i wasn’t happy there from day one. I didn’t leave till the manager became overly aggressive to the point I didn’t feel safe working there. The thing that only really annoys me the most is that I had done great work for that firm just the following year, and had nailed all my expectations. I tried for three months to tell them I wasn’t a good fit, but to me they just didn’t seem to care.

@matt234 ​ - Please see response above, but yes. I did, and no they had advanced warning of me ready to leave this position. It wasn’t a “I decide to quit one day” email. It had been very bluntly told that I was not happy with this position, and I felt the manager was overly hostile towards me. I’m actually more surprised that the hostility hasn’t decreased from them since I’ve been away.

2 Spice ups
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#WeirdFish - This is similar to my experience, but the manager was very much more on the hostile side. This is what I thought too, it’s very much I’m stuck in this area for the foreseeable future. I can’t leave due to family members on medical care that they are slowly on their way to the world beyond. Leaving for another town is not really an option at this point. The only bad part about this is they are one of three of the biggest firms. It leaves me very much boxed and cornered for any sort of help.

@weirdfish

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@timhetzel ​ It’s the same way in my area. The problem we have is that I’m pretty equal with the recruiter in word of mouth for that arena. It’s definitely something that’s a toxic feeling when we both share seats on the local IT meetings. It’s like being divorced but having to regularly see each other, it just looks, and feels nasty. Given I can’t leave town either for medical issues with my family. It just makes it something that I feel I’m going to have to learn to deal with.

1 Spice up
(Tim7139) 9

You have offered no reason to have us believe they changed, or that you have. Failure seems assured of you both followed the same steps you did before. Sad you feel they pointed that out in a way that you feel is unkind, but welcome to life after a break up. Likely saved both parties a lot of time and pain.

If you had a legally actionable employment concern and they failed to help you, then shame on them for hanging you out to dry, and shame on you for going back. Don’t let desperation force you into the same position. If the law failed to protect you, protect yourself.

If you did not have a legally actionable employment concern, unless there was a happiness clause in your contract, you ended the relationship and you need to live with your choice.

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I want free ice cold beer everyday at work. Shockingly that’s something I only get a few times a year.

You do know how recruiting firms work. They don’t shuffle people around based on feelings? Consulting firms will shuffle labor, but recruiting don’t. They get paid based on hitting contract milestones.

You left before the contract term. That’ll generally mean you never work with that company again unless you had legal claim against them. Did you file a complaint with the labor board for something being illegally done?

Left a job without notice. Again, that’s generally going to get you put in the “do not re-hire camp”.

I mean, job markets are small and if you’ve quit a job without a 2 weeks notice and not completed contracts it’s fair to say that managers talk and you will be harder to hire for anyone who works with any of the firms involved.

Ohh god no. We never would have sent you the email. A manager to manager conversation would just have quietly described what happened when people asked about your tenure, and if anyone called HR to check your work history/references they would have stuck to “WOULD NOT REHIRE”.

1 Spice up
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Sorry for this. My father in laws getting out of the ICU tomr. That said is there anyone else you can get (home health) or can you move this person or just come visit on the weekends? I’ve seen people put their career on pause for years before for this and it crippled them financially in the long run if it tied them to too small a market. Also what about work from home/travel roles where you do fly out’s for the week but come back? I’m wheels up next two weeks, and while it would suck if someone died while I’m 10 time zones away the money from the job is helping mitigate a lot of the current medical situation. There’s a lot of problems you can legitimately throw money at.

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It’s worth noting that the worst employers depend on recruiting firms the most. We refuse to pay outside recruiters, and primarily hire from referrals. We have mandatory bi-weekly skip manager calls that’s primary to make sure the managers are not going rogue and doing weird stuff.

1 Spice up
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Not that experience, but I have had recruiters behave unprofessionally otherwise. Recruiters are sales people, and other people are their stock and trade. They’ll lie, steal, and manipulate to make a buck off you, and then try to punish you for not maximizing their cash in on you for wanting something better than they offer you. I say f**** them. There are other ways to get that job. Recruiters and their agencies are just one small avenue. Don’t let a recruiting agency get you down. I say pursue other avenues. Good luck.

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I actually did file with the labor board. There was several instances that I’m a hourly employee that my hours were manipulated so that I was not being paid for work that I did. I have documented proof that I was there, and allowed to do said work, but was not paid for it after the fact. The claim was filed with the labor board, and to my surprise. I was not the first to file against that particular company.

@tim7139

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Yes, to this I know. I was just in the positive mindset that if I had voiced my concerns I had about the position in a way that was positive that “Look, I’m not a good fit for this place, they don’t want someone with my skills here. They want someone to take the fall for when this place falls period” they would have been a little more receptive since I had done great work from them in a previous long term contract. I guess I should have realized that recruiters don’t care. You are just livestock to them after all.
I, actually did try to give notice. I thought that the entire discussion over it for 3 months. The weekly meetings expressing said concerns, and me asking about a different job through their company would have been a big enough alarm bell that someone would have maybe thought about something? Again, livestock not people.
The family members that are on this type of healthcare needs. No, there’s no chance of moving them. We expect one to be deceased within the end of the year, and the other is very slowly coming to the same conclusion after her last doctors appointment. They just will not give us a time because they honestly don’t know. We do know she’s slowly going down more and more each day. I can’t say I have the heart to think about a retirement home given her mental decline. It’s something that the family is still trying to sort out for our best interest in our family.
I actually did try that for a while, I was living around 3 hours away from my current home. It ended up that I couldn’t make the on call requirements for the position because I was back here every weekend to help catch up. I made the mistake of taking a job that I thought would be something I could handle more. I went back to tier 1 automotive, which I thought I could do again. I just seemed to be moving into the exact same problem I had, just with a different manager of the same caliber I just left. I am currently working in a position that it’s much more entry level. It’s something very below my skillset, but it does allow me the income I need for now, and the ability to spend time with some of my family, while they are still here. I understand there is a lot of problems money can fix. The problem I’ve had is to me. I’ve been a contractor so long that full time hires spots are very rare for me. I am also very unsure at this point in my life, where I would even want to live. I don’t seem to find peace anywhere that I go. I always run into some sort of similar situation that it leaves me almost as I was before I left. I’d like to try to clean some of that up to fix it. I also with this given its been going on for years have not been able to set my own personal goals as high as I would have liked. Most system admin positions for the area wish me to have a 4 year degree, and higher certifications. Both of which I do not have, and both of which I have had limit me in one way or the other even before this flaming dumpster fire of an experience with recruiters.

@johnnicholson

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I am beginning to see that. I’m actually quite saddened by it. It makes you feel very much like an underpaid actor. They are literally peddling you off to a company for a profit. I don’t see how that’s any different than a Hollywood agent. I did fall into some of the sales pitch from the last recruiter. He always went on and on about caring for his guys. Yeah, well, so much for that one. I tried the honest approach, and I tried to be professional about the whole thing. I even properly documented all of my work, left it on my desk with my ID & keys. I even had a two week notice drafted to be signed. Getting something slung at me in a private meeting that turned into a heated argument. I will say that was my last straw. I didn’t want to go into the legal ramifications, nor the emotional abuse of that one. I hated to burn the bridge like that, but at that point I didn’t see any other option. Staying was not an option at that point.

@cwoodward

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I know expectations change depending on culture, but it’s interesting seeing how it is in many parts of the world it’s looked at. In India, they look upon the American system of nursing homes and assisted living with horror. In my family, there seems to be a focus on not holding up the next generation.

My mother had an interesting conversation with my wife when she described the same situation with her father 30 years ago. She told her mother she would come to visit when she could, but she couldn’t move (I was just born at the time). My grandmother, when she was diagnosed with cancer, told all of the grandchildren to visit, but not put our lives on hold. We went and visited her, and were there for the end, but in the end, she wanted us to finish our education, start our careers and make her proud in that way. My mother when helping out two weeks ago told us when the time comes to move her to our city and not the other way around.

It’s a touch choice (and always feels morbid to discuss) either way and ultimately it’s yours to make. The issue with the IT field is the best jobs are often in larger markets (or are travel heavy). My career requires I travel a fair amount (last year 120 hotel nights, and long trips where I couldn’t rapidly get back from other continents) It’s been always been a negotiation with the family of trading money for the problems being away created. At a certain point, it’s shocking what you can offset has been my discovery.

I always told people when I was in management we were a team… A profesional sports team. Bring lots of value, and revenue and I’ll shower you in double digit raises, training and promotions. Fall below the line? your cut. Netflix has an entire slide deck around this. Loyalty is good to star employees who hit a bad patch, but you think might come back. Unlimited loyalty to a underdelivering employee is not what we are about.

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Everyone’s in sales, include you. Your job is to sell yourself. If you are not willing to do this, don’t expect top positions.

Why were you in a heated argument? Don’t ever engage with peopple who yell in meetings. It gives you ZERO leverage later when others can say “They were both acting like assholes”. Also, as a contractor from a staffing company, your not in a position to argue. Your in a position to do the work expected of you. “ours is not to reason why, ours is but to do or die” is the motto of someone who just follows the scope of engagement. If you need resources to acomplish scope, that’s what a simple email to a project manager. Shitty managers know they can make you disapear with a simple word.

This is also the benefit of consulting shops. When I did consulting we had a case where someone crossed a line with one of our staff twice.

  1. It was a low level employee, we raised it to management and they were fired.

  2. Another case where one of our consultants were thrown under the bus and the company didn’t want to budge. we cut ties with them, followed their final requests to the letter (which resulted in us removing spam filtering services before they moved their MX) and honestly laughed at them as we moved on to new customers.

Consulting shops are very diffrent than staffing because your manager is someone who works for your company, and not the person you are doing work for. A recruiter just needs you to hit 90/120/365 days and complete the contract because thte payment is backloaded. Lying to you, stringing you along is their financial incentive.

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If you had a legally actionable employment concern and they failed to help you, then shame on them for hanging you out to dry, and shame on you for going back.

You gave notice or you did not. You might not have with an explanation, like failing to follow procedure or process, but it’s a yes/no choice.

Think back to all the times providing IT support when something should have been an alarm bell and was not. Air Traffic Controllers remind pilots to declare an emergency when they feel it’s implied by asking “are you declaring an emergency”, most people you’ll encounter in life don’t, and the larger and more process driven the company the less likely it is for someone to act on warning signs (or for it to be appropriate for them to do so).

You’ve stated there are others in the position you were in. If there were 100 people with similar concerns how many quit vs. sticking it out vs. other alternative. If your actions match a minority action, what would have differentiated your signals or warning from theirs?

But blah blah who cares - they failed you, you failed them, everyone lost. You ended the relationship, and it was disrespectful to both them and yourself to try and go back. Trying to go back increases the risk you’ll be talked/gossiped about, and if it is a small market you want to be out of mind and off the radar as soon as possible.

@ryan-davis

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I’ve never aimed for positions higher. Only positions that I wanted to do that I used to enjoy doing. It’s never been the same since the last round of job changes. The second part. It was originally a meeting to discuss resources needed which could only be approved by him to complete the project. He quickly turned hostile, and by the time it was time to end the meeting, as I got up is when the object was slung. He continued to be more and more aggressive because he didn’t want to deal with the project he left me to do, that i couldn’t complete because he didn’t given me a budget to fix it.

@johnnicholson

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If you can’t get resources to finish a project just close it out incomplete, and notify whoever is the project owner it’s not going forward. Getting in an argument is whoever the project’s sponsor’s problem. If he’s the project sponsor and he doesn’t want to allocate resources then the project is over. Not all projects are worth funding or competing.

If I had a dime for every incomplete project I never finished…